Tag: Townstal

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How To Find Ancestors, A Professional’s Tip

Thorne graves in Dartmouth, Devon

 I was having a chat with a professional genealogist recently.

During the discussion I mentioned a particular brick wall that I had in my family tree.

“When was the last time you reviewed it?” he asked.

“Ah, I see what you mean!” I replied. “It is over six months since I sent it to the back burner and concentrated on other easier to find people.”

 

It is a lesson that even I forget to do and that is to periodically go back and see if, with new information you can now make some progress.

New record sets may have become available in the time since you last looked at your ancestor. It may be the release of yet more transcripts by Family History Societies, or those of the genealogical retailers that can now aid you. New parish records may have been uploaded to the likes of Ancestry,  TheGenealogist  or Findmypast.

Your ancestor may appear in one of the more diverse data sets that the subscription sites are releasing such as the Tithe Records on TheGenealogist, new occupational records on Ancestry, or The British in India records on Findmypast.

It is not just the case of reviewing the recently released documents on the subscription sites, that I am advocating. Take a look again at sets you may already have used. Perhaps, in the light of your experience and any new found knowledge that you have gained since last you looked, the answers may now be clear.

 

With my friend’s advice I set about looking again at a brick wall that I had in Devon.

In 1794 I have a John Thorn marrying a Sarah Branton in Plymouth in the parish of Charles on the 12th January. This John Thorn is not listed as being of the parish, yet his wife is.

They then move quickly to Dartmouth where their son, also called John is born with the child being baptised on the 28th September of the same year. In the marriage register, in Plymouth, John Thorn Senior was listed as a mariner and so it does not surprise me much that they pitch up along the coast at another port. But then what happens to them?

The Mouth of the River Dart.
Dartmouth, Devon.

We are taught to always kill off our ancestors as good practice. In my case I had not found the death records for John Thorn Senior, nor of his wife Sarah. I had an inkling that they probably settled in Dartmouth, as the line remains there for another two to three generations, but I did not know if they stayed or not.

Since reviewing my notes on the searches I made, in the parish records at the Devon Heritage Centre in Exeter, I have now realized that I had indeed found a possible burial of a John Thorn in Dartmouth in January 1810, but had not entered it into my family tree.

The page from the parish of St Saviour’s, Dartmouth, had helpfully given me the information that this particular John Thorn was only 41 at his death This means he could be a candidate for the marriage in 1794, as he would have been 25 in that year.

St Saviours on phone camera
St Saviour’s Dartmouth

When I last looked at the parish records, on the visit to the Devon Heritage Centre (previously the County Record Office), I had been disappointed not to have found the burial entry for his wife Sarah in the same parish and so I had put this line of enquiry aside.

But now, as I looked back at my notes, I see that I had also done a thorough job and looked at all the other churches in the town. I had found, among all the people buried in Dartmouth, and with the correct surname, one Sarah Thorn aged 50.

Dartmouth St Clements
Dartmouth, St Clement’s. Townstall

This Sarah Thorn is buried at the Parish church of St Clement’s, Townstall, Dartmouth on the 21st June 1818. At 50 she would have been born in 1768 and so she may well have been the wife of John, who was buried 8 years prior in the daughter church of St Saviour’s that is closer to the port.

Looking back at my visit to the record office I can recall that I finished my trawl of the parish record microfiche as a deadline for me to leave approached. I had a flight to catch from Exeter Airport and a connecting bus from outside of the Met Office to get me there. In my rush I had noted down the finding but had not looked at it in the right frame of mind. So perhaps here is another reason for reviewing your brick walls.

Now that the Devon Parish Records are on Findmypast I was recently able to go back and look at them at my leisure. This time without the pressure of missing a flight and so I can hypothesize that these two individuals are very possibly my direct ancestors.

Regretfully, with the paucity of information to identify someone contained in the pages of most parish records, I can not be completely sure. As with anyone with a common name there is always the possibility that they are simply namesakes.

If you would like to learn more about Death records, parish registers or good practice in doing English/Welsh family history then take a look at joining the Family History Researcher.

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My Ancestors Lived In A Road That Is No Longer There!

The Mouth of the River Dart.
The River Dart with Dartmouth in the distance.

My 3 times great grandparents, John and Elizabeth can be found in the 1861 census at Mill Pond, Dartmouth in Devon.

Great, I thought, I’ll take a look on my next visit to Dartmouth. Ah, but where exactly is Mill Pond today? A search of the current map shows nothing and so a little bit of investigative work was all I needed. At least that was what I thought!

By checking back through the census returns on TheGenealogist, Ancestry and findmypast  we can see that immediately prior to walking Mill Pond, the enumerator recorded entries for North Ford Lane and immediately after Mill Pond he had enumerated the residents of Charles Street followed by Mariner’s Place, then North Ford Lane again and New Road.

A fantastically helpful document on the Dartmouth Archives website ( http://www.dartmouth-history.org.uk/view_doc.html?Id=140&Hrow=0 ) has given me the current names of some of the roads in the town that have changed names over the years. While Mill Pond is not mentioned, North Ford Lane is. It is now split into North Ford Road and Newport Street. Mariner’s Place is now called Roseville Street and backs on to North Ford Lane. New Road was renamed Victoria Road after Queen Victoria’s Diamond jubilee in 1897 and so on.

I also gleaned from a document on this website that the Dartmouth mill pond was where the market place is today and westward from here – “The Butterwalk was the covered market before the mill pond was filled in and a new market was built in 1828.”

By opening the census record for my ancestor I could find that it was in district 6d in 1861 and by navigating to the Description of the Enumeration District I found that it gave me a list of the streets in the part of the parish of Townstal that were included in that district enumerated by one Mr John Pound. It comprised of Clarence Hill, Mount Pleasant, Mount Galpin, Clarence Street, Silver Street, Bake Lane Hill, Cox’s Steps, Hardress, Broadstone, Slippery Hill, North Ford Lane, New Road, Albert Place, Charles Street, Mariner’s Place, Mill Pond, Market Square and Foss Street.

Then consulting a map, not from the 1860s I regret, but from twenty eight years later, I wondered if the 6 households counted in Mill Pond are the properties to the north of Market Square next to the Methodist Chapel around the market square at the bottom of a hill called Broadstone. In other census, however, the number of dwellings change up and down and the neighbours are not the same meaning it is hard to tie Mill Pond down. In fact in the 1851 census I found no Mill Pond, Dartmouth, at all.

Returning to the document charting the development of the Mill Pond I now understand that Mill Pond refers to the development that occurred west from Charles street as well as the market place.

“In 1816… the building of a new Wesleyan Chapel on a site on the north side of the Millpond at a point just to the west of the entry to the old mill race. It replaced an earlier meeting house situated  elsewhere in the town”  This gives weight to my first theory about it being the north side of the market place.

While the next two quotes give weight to my second thought that it was an area along New Road to the west.

“Until the filling in 1828 of the market site the water continued to flow through the gullet, albeit, into the boat dock only. In 1831 the gullet and the boat dock were filled and the Millpond became land locked. By this time houses had been built both along the New Road and in Charles Street.

“The Corporation plan was to develop the Millpond area systematically beginning from Charles Street and moving westward as the prime sites were leased. The primary requirement was for houses and not for commercial premises.”

In most cases, by looking at the enumerator’s description and a contemporary map it is easy to find where your ancestors once lived, so why not give it a try?

One of the great features on TheGenealogist.co.uk and findmypast is the ability to search for an address.

The Genealogist - UK census, BMDs and more online


Disclosure: The Links in the above are Compensated Affiliate links. If you click on them then I may be rewarded by Findmypast.co.uk or The Genealogist.co.uk should you sign up for their subscriptions.

 

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Revist Your Family Tree Brick Walls!

Devon County Record Office
Devon County Record Office

This week I have been musing upon one of my to-do-lists! I am keen to get back a generation of Thorn’s from Devon, but as yet I do not have enough information to make the break through as to who were my 5x great-grandparents and when and where were my 3x great-grandparents, John and Sara, born?

As more and more datasets are released on the various online subscription sites, however, I periodically revisit this brick wall of mine.

 

John Thorn married Sarah Branton on the 12th January 1794 at Charles Church in Plymouth. The bride was of that parish and the groom was a “mariner” with no mention of which parish he was from. I have wondered if this meant that both bride and groom were of the same parish, or did the vicar simply omit to record where John Thorn sailed in from in a busy maritime city such as Plymouth. I have no evidence either way, all I know is that they married after banns had been called and in the Parish Register for Charles Plymouth in the year 1794 and their marriage entry is No: 60.

On the 28 September 1794, however, their first born son John Branton Thorn was baptised at St.Saviours Dartmouth (IGI C050791) which suggests that they moved to this Devon coastal town just after they got married. Was this a case of returning to the groom’s town to live? Or was it where his job took him?

Working back a generation I would now like to identify John’s baptism and then his parents marriage and baptisms. First I need to know John’s age as this information is not given in the marriage register. That is a typical state of affairs for an English Parish Register where very sparse amounts of detail are given. The exception is for the entries to be found in a Dade or Barrington style Church Records, which are named after the clergymen who tried to introduce more fulsome registers, having some success in Yorkshire for a period.

 

Back to the subject of  John and Sarah Thorn in Devon. By searching in the microfiche records of church registers for Dartmouth, at the Devon County Record Office at Moor Hall in Exeter, I have now discovered the burial of one Sarah Thorn of Townstal (the name given to the Parish of St Clement in Dartmouth and the mother church of St Saviours) on June the 21st in 1818 at the age of 50 in the St Saviours register for 1818, entry No:190.

I went back through the registers and the Bishop’s Transcripts for 1811 for Townstal and I then found one John Thorne buried on May the 19th 1811.

I also found a John Thorn buried in St Saviours in 1810 (page 19) who was born in 1769. Could any of these be my ancestors?

Looking at baptisms for any John Thorn around the time of 1768/9 or so I see that Find My Past has some Devon Church Records that can be usefully accessed on line. There is none for the date in question at Dartmouth, but one in Dorset may be a possibility.

My next thought is to check to see if I can find the banns book for Charles in Plymouth and also the one for Dartmouth to see if this provides me with any more clues about where John and Sarah came from and to also check now for baptisms using the microfiche at the County Record office in Exeter.

 

It is a good idea that you periodically revisit any brick walls that you have as new data may have become available and your skills in family history may have improved since the last time you dusted off the problem. In the next few weeks I am planning a visit the County Record Office to see if I am able to push my tree back another generation.

Watch this space!

 

The family history websites that I find really useful are Find My Past and The Genealogist.co.uk. To take your family history further I recommend that you to consider a subscription to these websites. Take a look now and see what great data sets they have to offer

 

 

The Genealogist - UK census, BMDs and more online

 


Disclosure: The Links in the above are Compensated Affiliate links. If you click on them then I may be rewarded by Findmypast.co.uk or The Genealogist.co.uk should you sign up for their subscriptions.

 

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